A sorrowful Announcement.

[Godai]

Hello everyone,

This thread is to inform you of recent events that the staff has enacted, and about which we want to be transparent. If Godai is to be described as a human body, the rules, setting, and guides all make up the bones and flesh of the body. The membership of Godai is what gives life to the site, what makes things move and breathe. Sometimes, tumors form, little bits of the body and the life that act in their own interest and can harm the body as a whole. Most of the time they really do add character and personality, like beauty marks. Other times they can spread to vital systems.

On February 14th, after multiple arguments with a fellow moderator, Chaos1x, over the course of several weeks, Vartio felt that Chaos1x had threatened him, this is after Vartio made personal attacks when discussing policy. Chaos1x reminded Vartio that these were personal attacks, and that he didn't appreciate the comments and that the discussion was tiring. Chaos1x felt his efforts in the discussion were not being respected, so he deleted them. Vartio then viewed being told that he was bothering someone, and them removing their work, as a threat not only to him, but to the entire site, and decided to temporarily remove Chaos1x from modship and also ban him. The tone was much more pointed by both parties than I am describing it now.

While we recognize that Vartio had the intent of protecting the site from danger, his catastrophic conclusion was completely unfounded, and nearly cost us a dedicated and talented moderator. His willingness to use powers reserved for the totality of the staff also speaks to his self serving interests. Only once before, in the early days of Godai, has a moderator unilaterally banned anyone, and it also happened to be other staff members, and we were thankfully able to reverse that decision and convince him to remove himself from the site.

Furthermore, Vartio has been an offender before, and has been viewed as trying to push the systems Godai has in place for the sake of trying to break them, as long as it serves his own desires. Having someone who considers the extremes of rules and possibility is a good thing, but someone who toes the line to their own benefit cannot be trusted with being a moderator. We will not allow him to be in a position of power ever again.

Furthermore, he has been banned for 6 months, longer than his previous bans. This will give him plenty of time to think about his actions. We have also removed his character from the site. Upon his return, if he wishes, he will have to make an entirely new character and start over from scratch. This will not be a reap, he will start just like any other new member. His character may be returned once the staff have reached a consensus that he understands how what he did was wrong and harmful, and how to behave like a truly supportive member of the site.

Again, we know that Vartio truly believes that he was doing what was best, and was trying to preserve Godai from someone he believed would harm the site. We are not punishing that intent, but the direction he went in. A tumor grows with the same intent as any other part of the body, but in its own direction, to the point where it can spread to vital organs. We are treating the tumor in this action.

Still, the staff is not the only source of life in Godai, every member adds their own breath and voice to the site, and deserves to be heard. This decision can be reversed, and we'd like to hear any major concerns people have. Please post them below, and be patient with replies, as the staff have busy lives on top of this.

Thank you for your time,
Godai Staff

Edit 6:47 AM: Vartio has admitted to using Proxies to bypass the ban. The staff views this as evidence that more extreme punishment than banning is necessary.

[Mr. Johnapillar]

Per personal request, Vartio has asked that we post some information on his behalf. We will present his unaltered statements, as well as our interpretation of them, when necessary, to show how his lines of thinking are damaging to the site.

"I want a few corrections:

1. You should mention it wasn't me feeling threatened over the course of a few weeks. Rather, that Chaos used a phrase he used before and enacted when he didn't get his way, namely, "Claiming Vartio was on thin ice". They deserve to know WHAT was said that triggered the incident.

2. Likewise, that Chaos insulted me by implying that I was disgraceful just for arguing wit him (you have the quote above, search 5:14 your time).

3. I did not, ever, react to him threatening to remove his work as far as WHY I acted, he never said he aws removing his work as part of this thread until AFTER I actually did the ban.

4. Mention that is was a TEMPORARY ban of 10 minutes. Chaos was banned. You can double check with everyone that nobody had to unban him. If they're going to voice their opinion they deserve those 4 objective facts"

Our interpretation and further context is as follows.

1. In the past, Chaos took on a roll for Vartio and, without giving too much information on how the roll system works, was given the chance to do a very nice thing for Vartio and give him a pokemon he wanted. This roll was unnecessarily large (a common staple for Vartio, who likes to ask for as much as possible to get what he wants, regardless of how it has been shown to lead to him writing subpar work, and also adds a /lot/ of work for the staff). On top of this, Vartio asked for updates, eager to see the result. For folks with a busy life, this is viewed as pestering, and can damage a person's desire to work. When Chaos became too frustrated by this, he passed it off to another staff member, and offered to help that staff member with it. This was after he used the phrase "You're on thin ice" to Vartio, and then said he deleted the roll. While Chaos's behavior was not something we would support on its own, given the context of working with Vartio, it becomes more understandable.

2. Vartio sent this to me via skype, so to provide the context, at one point in a discussion turned argument, about a potential change to the EXP share item. Chaos replied "arguing further is building a strawman to justify a position I find disgraceful to yourself, both as a writer and as a mod" This is after Vartio spoke in circles around an innocuous "issue," late at night, and would shoot down every attempt at compromise from Chaos. Other folks who read the exchange view Vartio as the instigator.

3. As someone who had to catch up on events while finishing a shift on one of the busiest days of the year, and without timestamps for everything, the exact order of events isn't clear. This point does not justify the ban either way, however.

4. This, too, is just admission to using power against someone who disagreed with him. The very thing he is trying to accuse Chaos. This is an example of gaslighting, and only serves to further our resolve in our decision.

Thank you for your time.

[windgrace]

Hello, my name is Windgrace. Many of you might not know me at all since I am a very new member and I've only just posted my character application which currently undergoing a review, coincidentally enough by Chaos1x, but I feel as though I should speak on this.

I am going to preface this with stating that I am Vartio's friend, I have known him for several years, and he was the one who invited me to this forum and got me to post here after several months of telling me about the site. Thus, I have bias but, I also believe I have a position which is fairly informed on who Vartio is as a person. However, I generally make every attempt I can to remain neutral in all situations, even when it may be to my detriment or people I know.

First of all, I do not appreciate that you seem to metaphorically refer to Vartio as a tumor; while it is also possible that you are referring to his actions, such a thing is not explicitly stated. It is dehumanizing to the individual involved and a poor choice of words. One does not reinvite a tumor back into oneself.

Secondly, I know Vartio has an insane amount of love for this site and as such, I do not believe that Vartio would ever do anything to maliciously harm this site. I do not know the entire context of this situation but I know him well enough to say that he would not take such measures carelessly and without careful deliberation first. I do not believe he would perform such an action like this unless he truly believed something terrible could befall this site.

Additionally, I'm not entirely sure how Godai Staff simultaneously believe that "Vartio truly believes that he was doing what was best, and was trying to preserve Godai from someone he believed would harm the site" while also believing that it "speaks to his self serving interests" when it was a temporary ban when a permanent ban would be much more self-serving. It could be that such things happened to align and is being attributed in a way to frame this in a certain light.

I understand that this is post is mostly about Vartio but this incident involves multiple members and it seems very anti-Vartio in general when it seems like he's not the only one at fault. If this were about transparency as you claim, I would expect the weeks of evidence with context to be presented in order to allow for individual members to make their own informed decisions on the matter.

I believe Vartio should be held responsible. However, I also believe all others involved should also be held responsible. This was obviously a continuous issue which happened "over the course of several weeks" as was stated that was not adequately addressed by those in charge. This incident eventually led to two mods being banned from the site due to petty infighting, even if one ban was a temporary one of 10 minutes. If this is something that happens due to the ongoings behind the scenes and a few misunderstandings and petty online arguments, I have little to no reason to have any faith in the Godai Staff or this forum in general.

[Saint Judas]

You also probably don't know me. I've been hanging around slowly making a character in a separate document, and I originally only came here due to a mix-up of affiliate requests with another site, Shula. Which by the way, I was informed someone was trying to say we had taken down your affiliate badge when we have not as of the moment of this post done so at all and you can easily find your button as a sister site :/

So while I don't expect my word to mean much, and to be considered of bias due to my connections through this site involving more interaction with Vartio then any other member in particular from him being the one to show up at Shula to him being the one to show me the screenshots of the case above in point and chatting with me about this, I want you to know that while I am going to strongly favor his side, I am trying to be unbiased, and at the very start of the screenshots, I was equal, if not slightly in favor of Chaos on the discussion of balances and how the discussion was being handled. I only change my mind as things degrade, and by the end find myself a little sorrowful by what I see. Especially given what attracted me to this site was its creative and open freedom and the fact that it heavily stressed self-improvement and an open community where everyone was a part of how things ran, seeing this and how it was handled is a little... frustrating.

First off, in agreement with windgrace, calling Vartio a tumor is an insult, especially when you just tried to make a point of saying he had good intent and was a good mod otherwise. Either he was a toxic and cancerous person who had no right to be a mod and shouldn't have been let in in the first place, or... he was someone who made a snap-second decision that was strongly disagreed with/looked down upon. Given that he was not only trusted enough to be a support mod, but that he spent a lot of time making people feel welcome, trying to update the forum, and help transition and keep things going while the original staff all slowly were absorbed by real life, this is hard to see why you would suddenly begin calling this person a tumor and thus implying he had malevolence and would actually kill things and take over.

And if you truly believe he was going to try to take over/control the forum, I would like to point out a couple things. One, he made a temporary ban, and if you showed the screenshots of the discussion (which oddly you do not, and instead offer only brief words about it that vastly under-cover the complexity of the issue, especially given you are asking for member opinion while only offering the opinions of a small group of people and not an objective recollection or the base facts), you would find that Vartio repeatedly says that it was temporary and that he was waiting on the other staff, and that he was more then happy to have chaos back if that was what the other mods agreed on. He also gave them all back the admin password the instant he changed it. I feel like if his intent was to take over or harm the server, he would have simply kept the account to himself, or not have been so blatantly open about wanting the others input. Perhaps this is because he just thought he couldn't get away with that. But that seems a sketchy argument as well, and he goes to lengths to both explain his reasoning as much in fact as he can, apologizing for his rashness, and opening it up to have his decision changed and noting it is not a one person decision but merely that he put it into a time out so that things could safely wait until multiple people could decide.

Another thing, the threat on thin ice... I understand that the first usage of it seems to be more then justified. But in the context of the screenshots I am looking at, it is just a threat, and one that is both clearly indicating intent, and not very clearly indicating exactly what he intended to do. While perhaps that past info is pertinent to Vartio being one who often tries to go bigger then he should, it doesn't quite erase the fact that Chaos was making a threat. You also say Vartio personally attacked Chaos first, but I see nothing of the sort, just an argument that is very stubborn from both sides. If that were the case though, then I would point out that prior to the threat, the argument was equally pointed, and that neither side was being agreeable and both were making personal statements, and it seems like Finny was watching during this.

If you want to say Vartio instigated the issue by being the first to bring up the issue that is fair, but it wasn't just him shooting down every idea of Chaos or going in circles, I have read through the argument, and Chaos was shooting down Vartio's ideas as well and ignoring points made to alter or counter things. Neither side was right in this or very open to compromise, but again, that is neither side, and blaming one side more heavily then the other seems unfair, even if its in the light of later events.

I don't think admitting to, owning up to, and being open and honest about an action is attempting to gaslight. He openly admitted many times he was quick to draw and may have been wrong but wanted other mods to look first and just wanted to do something temporary to keep things safe. In return you took away all his work, disregarded the care he put into the decision, and called him essentially a cancer to the forum.

To revisit the second paragraph of the first post here, you also say that Vartio was the first to attack, Chaos said he did not appreciate these personal attacks, and that Vartio felt him deleting his own work was personal. Yet his threat, in the screenshot, I again point out, does not specific what he was going to do, and he made a couple of threats to Vartio and insulted him. After the ban, he also insulted him even more, several times just flat out giving one line insults and even cursing at Vartio while Vartio said he just wanted to wait and that he only banned for the threat, and for nothing else. He also immediately unbanned, and did not remove Chaos in any way from the forum. The issue is multiple times illustrated by Vartio at least, and then never addressed by *anyone else* that he only removed Chaos for a threat, which he has screenshotted, as well as much of the conversation before it to show that it was the first insult said, at least in several pages of screenshots. I also never see statements from Chaos along the lines of Vartio bothering him or him wanting to leave the conversation. I do see statements where Chaos tries to finalize decisions without either of them actually coming to agreement, but nothing of discomfort, just argument that was even from both sides.

So forgive me if I don't know anything, but seeing this from a site I was genuinely interested in is very concerning and disheartening, and while I can't say I've been around long enough to closely know both sides, I got the feeling the staff were all very closely connected, and I am disturbed to see that not only are they not trusting of each other, but that they are also quarrelsome, and throwing out their own, whether for reasons they believe are good, or to favor the choice of one and give heavy action rather then have to risk and trial things. Please try to take my statements objectively, if I seem emotional at any part of this, I apologize, I have been having a very hard time getting to sleep of late for reasons entirely unknown to me but not related to this.

---

In the morning I realize I had skipped about what my point in all of this was, and I am sorry for that, truly. If it seems I am trying to say Vartio has done nothing wrong or has never had problems, that is not true, he did do something a bit drastic, and I do understand the feeling that he may be someone harder to work with and wanting to push the edges when it comes to spawns and what he wants to write. I am also not saying Chaos is just as at fault as Vartio, while they had equal parts in the arguments (from what I can see), one made a threat and then acted upon his own work, one saw a threat and acted upon the other. Those are two different levels of things there, and I do understand that.

All I wish to say is I feel like Vartio's actions should be considered in moderation to why he did them and the fact that Chaos was not entirely without some things about him that might have pushed this. It does necessarily make it right, but it does make it easier to understand and seem less unbased when looked at with context. As for the screenshots I reference in my argument, I have been told that Vartio is or has shared with many others, but cannot say personally who has seen them or how many others. I am pretty sure with permission though, he would let me share them, whether or not they would be taken as valid evidence. I think perhaps maybe it's best he have some sort of moderation given in the light of such events, but if his pushiness was the real problem I feel he would not have been a mod in the first place, and while perhaps a break for him is what you feel is best, such a lengthy and hefty ban feels severe. But in the end it is opinion only, and I understand that my personal one is not one of a well-known or long-standing one. Sorry for the word wall, thank you if you take the time to read

[Staltik]

    My response to this probably isn't going to be as long as the other ones and I've overall come out of this situation with mixed feelings. On the one hand, what Vartio did was wrong and the punishment fit the crime, on the other hand, it sucks to see something like this happen to somebody who I know loved being on here. I'll be upfront with my feelings towards Vartio so that you can get some idea of where I stand: I was pretty neutral regarding him with slightly more negative thoughts than positive ones, this isn't necessarily because of things he did (although it does come into play a little bit) but because I just don't think our personalities clicked. 

    The first major point I've noticed is the tumor reference and the conflicting statements about Vartio's actions. While I do think the tumor metaphor was possibly a little bit too far I think that it did a good job hinting towards the situation and I can imagine that this letter was still being made in the heat of the moment where everybody was still feeling very upset and frustrated. In regards to the whole " you're saying he has godai's best interest but that he's selfish" argument: the way that I saw it was they were saying that in Vartio's mind his actions were just and he was acting in godai's best interest when in reality he was being selfish and harmful. 
    
    This whole debacle comes off to me as kind of a power trip where Vartio felt he was being mistreated and lashed out as a result. Mind you I haven't seen any of these seemingly mystical screenshots that have been mentioned, I do believe that this somewhat lines up with what I've seen from Vartio on this website in the past regardless of his actions in the real world ( the anonymity of the internet can really change a person). I've noticed in the chatbox Vartio often makes comments about various "Secrets" and such from being a mod, whether it's telling staff members to check the other group chat or talking about having special things in the works that he can't tell. To me, it always came off like he was flaunting his mod-ship to us, but I might just be a more quiet person than he is. Not to mention the whole pushing the rules and the mods to its limits. Looking at Vartio's last encounter alone he asked for 5 pokemon and 2 items, that alone is pretty exorbitant and a lot of work for the mods and while I can't speak to them I'm sure it would have been okay if he had just let them do their work. But what from I gather he was constantly bothering him about what was going on with it. Speaking from my perspective this would have annoyed me very much and would have left a very bad taste in my mouth in regards to Vartio. 
    
    Obviously, tensions kept flaring between the two and we know what happens next. I think regardless of whether or not staff is making it seem like nobody else had a part to play in this matter, which obviously other people did, Vartio still did what he did and is being punished because of it. Had he decided to settle the argument by talking things out I'm sure there would've been a much different outcome and this would have all been avoided. 

    That's pretty much all I have to say and I'm open to other arguments and stuff, I just think it's important to put in everybody's perspective on the matter and this is mine. 

[kristachii5]

Hello !

I can't offer much regarding this particular event, but I would like to put my two cents in regarding my opinion of the people involved (Which for all I know, could be more than just Vartio and Chaos1x)
I'd like to say that I know both of these people fairly well, I recently added them on Skype and while I don't talk to them often, I have grown closer to Chaos over the past few months, however Vartio has always been a stone of sorts, bringing me back to this place and cheering me up if I'm ever feeling down or hurt. So I consider both to be my friends.

Chaos is an incredibly giving & understanding individual; he helps me with my threads, for which I will be eternally grateful, we have played minecraft together, and he's just overall a really genuine person who's been edging me back to this site (I'm not very active at the moment, but I'll explain why soon.)
Vartio has been here for as long as I can remember. He & Bones have been my mentors and have helped guide me through my early days. If I'm ever feeling concerned about my thread, Vartio comforts me, or if I'm lacking any motivation, Vartio is there to push me. If I'm just lurking, he will shout into the chatbox and urge me to start talking to him, even if it just a little script RP between a dog and a rat.

However, despite my kind words for these two, I am deeply hurt to see that they've started this debacle. I do understand what people might be upset about when it comes to Vartio in this situation. I am aware of his close relationship with the mods and how he may abuse that. I have seen him asking how his evaluations, or encounter rolls are progressing. I believe I have told him at least once to be patient and let the mods go as they're busy.
(I myself am waiting for an Evaluation that's been on hold since.. July, before we switched from Zetaboards to Proboards. Although, I'm only waiting so long because I have requested Bones to do it. Since he has been consumed by his real life, I have decided to step back from Proboards and only check in every now and then to see if there's any progress, which looks like somebody else has taken my Evaluation. It saddens me that I wont get Bones, but tough. I cant always get what I want.)

I also know he can be a bit.. Abrasive? At times. I understand why some people may not get along with him. He can seem selfish with that factor (Abusing his relationship with the mods), BUT. He loves this site. He always has. He always tells newcomers how great it is to have them and I recall how excited he was to see the new site and know that Godai were to continue to prosper. - In fact, both Chaos and Vartio were excited to continue the thread after the site transfer and were happy to see it prosper and grow.

I never really had a point to any of this, as I wasn't here to see the incident unfold, but I wanted to say that I know these two kind people. They're both friends of mine and I'm incredibly upset to see this happen.

Edit : Before I started to type this, my immediate reaction to seeing this post was 'Wow, this is a bit immature.' - something happened and we aren't able to fix it quietly. Even after the incident, we're still talking about it and making it a public Announcement? For other members to see and post their opinions on it? It just feels so much like a personal attack on Vartio - at least that's how this post reads and I'm not alone in seeing this. Other members have already expressed how they dislike the representation of a tumor here and I agree, it's dehumanizing and wrong. Vartio is not a life-sucking leech who's just living to grow stronger and will eat whatever he can to consume the human. He always has loved this site and wants it to thrive.

Anyways, I've said enough. I feel this post is a personal attack against Vartio and these two people are both my friends and I am upset to see them fighting.

[Wremn]

Hello to all,

I'll try to keep this short. My first reaction to seeing this sorrowful with a lowercase "S" announcement, was to directly ask Vartio about his opinion on the matter.

I consider Godai as the hangout that I visit whenever I'm in town, on my break from my full-time job at Academia International (school) and upon coming back I thought. "Well crap, looked like something exploded when I was out."

As I am talking to Vartio (which I gather to not be the only person to have done so), which turned out more to be him spilling out everything that happened, via various screenshots, I determined that the escalation of this topic is something only such a passionate person as Vartio could accomplish. By the time I am writing this, I have devoted at least two full hours, 120 minutes and counting of my life I cannot take back, to listen to the drama that happens on a site I seemingly only perennially associate with.


Since everyone seems to love taking quotations, sayings, situations out of their full contexts and warping them to fit their own perspectives and opinions, I decided why the hell not when I've already 'taken the plunge' or so to speak. Instead of talking about the Vartio situation, I will instead take the last paragraph from John/Godai/The Staff's 'announcement' to highlight a larger situation that I think needs addressing.

"Still, the staff is not the only source of life in Godai, every member adds their own breath and voice to the site, and deserves to be heard. This decision can be reversed, and we'd like to hear any major concerns people have. Please post them below, and be patient with replies, as the staff have busy lives on top of this."

Alright, thanks John/Godai/The Staff. I love being asked for my voice... except how come you only asked for my voice for a situation that only marginally affects me? Why haven't I been asked my voice by the GODAI ADMINISTRATOR BOT on a similar announcement like this, about, let's say, how we're going to work together to build up our new community?


Let's take into account the last four times the GODAI ADMINISTRATOR BOT has been used to make a public announcement like this.

Movelist Update
> Oh look, Vartio updating Site Movesets. Exciting!
Staff Activity Autumn 2017
> Oh, Staff Activity has gone down. Sad news. Tear.
Public Apology Regarding Premier Members
> Oh-- I didn't even know dis bad stuff with Premiew Members trying to sabotage our site was happening. Yikes.
Invitation-Reminder
> A member was banned... What???

And this current announcement is also about a Member being banned.

Just looking at the history of these announcements, the only POSITIVE one made by the bot, has been Vartio using it to supply news regarding progress in the site. I'm not trying to justify Vartio's current actions by bringing up previous 'good' things he's done, because that'd be dumb. I'm trying to ask WHY are most of these announcements concerning things NOT RELEVANT to my immediate involvement as a member of this site if "my voice deserves to be heard"?

Can I please have my voice deserving to be heard in matters to advance the site and not comment on others' misconduct for once? Please. All I ask. I would love to talk about how we can make Central Godai more appealing to visit or something. Anything. Please.


I've voiced my concern.

-Wremn

[Gaja]

First and foremost I would like to apologize to all the members who had their time, and probably mood, affected by this incident. As part of the staff I feel like it is my moral obligation to apologize to all who were dragged into this and lost time on something that could have been handled quite differently in theory and is quite negative in nature.

Next I would like to thank everyone who voiced their thoughts. Certainly some of you really hit the nail on the head. I just wish more positive announcements got this kind of feedback and attention.

So obviously I have some thoughts I want to share on the whole Vartio incident and latest development. I am writing this in full disclosure so please take it as such. I am just giving my current thoughts on the whole situation and I don't really need any input as I was the one who witnessed this whole situation from pretty its beginning until today, aside from of course Vartio and Chaos.

I'll start by sharing my take on online forums, and in this case Godai in particular, and that is that a forum belongs to everyone equally. Everyone should be treated with respect and have equal rights. We are all here to have a good time, hangout, be creative and/or just talk to people we consider friends. Whatever the reason is, everyone is welcomed equally and helped. That's how it should be, in my mind at least. Everyone gets treated with respect and kindness.I try to conduct myself in such a manner and help everyone as much as possible regardless if I'm a mod or not.

And in my opinion Vartio has those same rights, as a member. Not staff, but a member. That was how I saw Vartio throughout the course of the past couple of days. A member that I should respect and treat fairly even when he messes up. Because making mistakes isn't anything bad, it happens to all of us. No one is perfect and even when the initial incident happened I wasn't particularly surprised and tried to find out what happened and do damage control. This was not his first 'mistake' mind you. Even when the topic of him getting banned came up my idea/suggestion for his ban duration was certainly on the easy side of things as I hoped cooler heads would prevail and that we could be "adults" about it.

However once you become draining and start hindering other peopls's lives and sucking up all their time and attention, and once you become such a toxic entity that you basically ruin that environment for people I feel like you've lost the right to be seen as a 'regular member' and that is where I am at at the moment with him.

Initially I would have cautioned patience, I would have told him to give it a bit of time, probably a few weeks if I had to give a number, and then approach the staff and talk to us about reducing the ban and how he wanted to be part of this little neat thing we got going on. Not as staff obviously as I saw that he simply wasn't comfortable in that role. He did not conduct himself in a professional manner, not just with Chaos, and after this incident I personally have lost confidence in him to act rational in situations that require exactly that. However I still trusted that things could be figured out with a bit of time.

But instead of taking a breather, inside of 24h he went ahead and spilled over into an entirely different dimension, which I refer as the latest development, where he's giving out staff real names, proposed game mechanics, private conversations, blatantly bothering people left and right, disregarding the rules of his ban and airing our "dirty laundry" very publicly instead of actually being an adult and coming forward and talking to us [either myself, John or Persi... or hell even Bones] about feeling that his punishment was unjust and that he wanted to stick around in some other form. Among other things.

I for one have lost, and I mean completely lost, faith in Vartio as a member. And I say this with a bit of a heavy heart because I do not give up on people easily and I certainly didn't expect my time as a mod to be spent like this. I realize that he probably feels sold out by me, judging by the last couple of messages he sent me, but that's on him to be honest as he just assumed and went about his way. I've been patient with him throughout his many moments, and questionable choices, and I've had enough of him sucking up my time with his negativity when he's clearly unable to keep a conversation civil and to the point.

I will not drag his name through the mud any more. I actually don't feel like I even touched upon his character, or his behavior, enough and honestly I don't feel like I need to. Everyone feels about him how they feel. That's your right and I respect that.

I will also not touch upon any further actions the staff may or may not take to end this and will be suggesting that this thread be locked so that the RP can heal from this and move forward. Godai needs to be a positive place that we all enjoy, not this.

Once again I apologize to all of you who were affected by this, as I doubt that it was in a pleasant way, and I would also like to thank all of you who took the time to read it.

Sincerely,
Gaja

[Mr. Johnapillar]

Hello Everyone, I will attempt to address any concerns brought up.

Regarding the tumor metaphor, I am sorry that I didn't do a good enough job in showing that moles and beauty marks are tumors, technically, and exist in relative harmony with a body as a whole, and it isn't until they become malignant that they need to be dealt with. I do understand now that it is a heavy comment to make about anyone though, and I am sorry that I didn't do a good enough job in describing my, and to a much lesser extent the staff's, intent on this. I am additionally sorry for how much it appears to have hurt Vartio personally to be compared to something so awful. I do not want to defend my hurting someone with words absolutely, but put it into context.

This leads into the next point: "How can the staff say that Vartio loves the site, and be mad at him for defending it?" A tumor begins because some cells just keep doing what they think is right. They keep dividing and they keep taking in nutrients and they keep doing that over and over again, when other cells will stop. A less charged example is someone believes that the best, most moral thing, is to go to a Church on Sunday, not any other day. To them, Church on Saturday is awful and evil and harmful to their religion. Someone might have the opposite opinion, and they are both right in a larger context. Their religious doctrines are different, and in different circumstances are correct and in others incorrect. This banning is not an absolute matter, the only established rule that was broken is the unilateral banning rule. What is being discussed, whether Vartio belongs on the site in the same capacity as always, without a ban and character withholding, is abstract and relative. Morals do not exist in a vacuum. Vartio can absolutely believe that he is doing something to protect the site, but did he really? In the process he offended and disturbed the majority of the staff. And when presented with an opportunity to learn how he had hurt them, flipped the script and made it all about him and his pain. That is an example of gaslighting. Furthermore, his steadfast conviction in the wake of punishment shows an unwillingness to work with a team, and a lack of empathy for those who he claims, or perhaps now claimed, to be family.

I do not want to say that Vartio is wholly awful, he is not cancer as described by a random act of malevolence that sweeps through a body and kills it viciously, though when I drone on and on about issues with him, it can come across that way. Vartio is friendly, and his behavior is endearing to some folk, but to others, perhaps many others if certain statements about him on the internet are to believed, he is not. How can a person be simultaneously friendly, warm, and welcoming, and also cold and abrasive and toxic? Was this decision morally correct? It depends on who you ask, and that is why we are discussing it. Yes, it seems immature, and I am sorry to hear that it is being received as bullying to Vartio, truly. I actively chose to make this public because I want to be sure that this decision is the most correct for Godai, and I cannot do that alone, or even with the support of the active moderators who asked for my help in this issue.

Ultimately, it seems to me that this really comes down to how some folks interpret the words "You're on thin ice." Vartio, and it seems some folk, felt that this was an aggressive statement. They read an implication that Chaos was going to knock the ice out from underneath him, that Vartio is open and vulnerable and ready to be attacked. I, and others, read this as defensive. I and others read that Chaos was tired of going back and forth in a circular argument, perhaps not knowing how to redirect the energy of the conversation (a skill I intentionally learned after meeting Vartio and I do not expect everyone to have), and got to a point where he needed it to end, and said "You are upsetting me please stop" phrased as "You're on thin ice." Thin ice being that if Vartio doesn't stop stomping around and spinning this conversation in so many different ways, everyone is going to fall into the water.

And that distinction comes down to what kind of experiences one has had with Vartio. I think it should be worth noting that almost every staff member I've had on the site has felt the same way about Vartio. That would seem to imply that Vartio interacts with staff differently that he does with other membership. This is understandable though, we act with our peers differently that we act with people in our service. However, the fact that an entire tier of a site has the same issues with the same member should be noted and dealt with.

Perhaps we should frame it differently. We, the staff and others, believe that Vartio and his behaviors are hurting us. Do you believe us. Or are we all wrong? If so, why? There are no wrong answers, just discussion on how to make the most people the most happy. The staff believe that punishment with intent for rehabilitation will make a lot of people happy. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

(PS Regarding Shula, yeah I have no idea why someone said that, I checked after it happened and confirmed that nothing changed, thank you for confirming from the other end~)

[Omega]

Hey all! I know it's been a long time since I've been here, but you can guess as to why I'm posting here at all (hint: it involves a little rat). I know it's not my place to judge this situation because there's clearly more going on that just a small misuse of staff power, but I want to at least give my 2 cents about this situation because I've experienced something similar to in the past.

To start, I am not here to defend Vartio or anything he's done. I've known Vartio for awhile, but not nearly as long as the staff, and I certainly haven't worked with him as much as they have. There is a lot more going on than just this one incident as John has mentioned, and there are things that most members probably aren't aware of either (myself included). This decision was certainly not made out of the blue, and to me it seems like this has been years of build up that has led to what looks like a drastic punishment for something as small as an easily reversible ban. Regardless, the situation itself isn't important. It is the final chink in the armor to give the staff an excuse to remove someone they felt has done more harm than good for the forum. I want to comment specifically on how Godai should handle this situation because I care more about Godai surviving and being a friendly, safe place for people to role play in than I do about the specifics.

For those who don't know I've helped run a few RP forums over the last decade, most of which I've been the main admin and decision maker for. I've dealt with plenty of situations involving members trying to abuse systems, acting nice but being malicious in the RP, self serving circumstances to get what they want regardless of others, and more importantly, members who mean well but don't always show it in their actions. I've banned good friends of mine from forums because I believed they were more malicious than helpful to the community, so I know this is not an easy decision for staff to make. It's eaten away at me because I questioned whether or not it was the right decision to ban someone, but the only reason I knew I did the right thing was because the rest of the community agreed with me. I understand it's a hard situation to be in, and I hope that moving forward that the Godai staff can help the community understand the ban better.

I know how frustrating it can be for staff to deal with people like Vartio because they want to be fair to everyone, but they also have their own wants and needs. Being bugged about someone using a mechanic or waiting for staff approval can be annoying to deal with when staff members have little time to help the forum while the players usually have all the time in the world. I can only imagine how much Vartio must have bugged staff for evals, rolls, and other staff work behind the scenes. I'm sure it's been this way for a long time, and I'm also 100% sure there are other circumstances that people don't know about either. All of this builds up and turns every interaction with that person into something that the staff have to second guess because they've lost trust in that member. There are specific reasons that the staff have made the decision to ban, so I don't think this is 100% bias against Vartio. 

With all of that said, I urge Godai staff to take a step back and evaluate the situation so that you guys can be as fair as possible while having a clean conscious. Is Vartio truly harming the site as a whole, or is he just being draining to the staff? Are his actions bad for the community, or are Godai staff sick of constantly doing staff work for Vartio? There is a difference between being annoying and being malicious, and I don't want Godai staff to confuse the 2 because of years of frustration with Vartio. If he's truly being cancerous and making the forum a worse place for people to enjoy, then what specific actions is he doing to cause this? Is he rude to members? Is he using the systems to take advantage of others? Is there a negative impact to the community as a whole? These are the most important questions to consider when you ban someone who has been around as long as Vartio has. 

I'm sure that Vartio has abused systems for his own personal gain, whether he meant ill intent towards the staff or not. He's been around too long to NOT have an experience like that. I understand that this behavior can be seen as malicious since it is self serving, but there are things that can be done to prevent this from happening as opposed to an outright ban. No system is perfect, and when you only have a few people testing out the more complicated parts of the RP, you're inevitably going to find some flaws that people can take advantage of. The important thing is to not blame the people for abusing the loopholes, but to correct the mistakes and to improve the system overall. There are things that can be done to the systems to prevent someone as active and involved as Vartio from being a nuisance to the staff without having to ban him. You can limit how often he does things, set more strict guidelines for systems, add rules about activity, etc. There are solutions to the problem other than removing it altogether, and I encourage Godai staff to consider these options when the call for a ban comes up. It's only a matter of time until another member joins Godai and starts doing something similar to Vartio, and I don't want this incident to be a precedent for future ones if it's not being handled correctly.

I am not saying what Vartio did was right. He should receive a punishment equal to the mistake he made, but going as far as banning him for 6 months and removing his character seem like very drastic punishments for something like this. There is more going on than just this one incident, and I would encourage Godai staff to provide more concrete evidence as to why Vartio is being malicious before using it as a reason to give him his current punishment.

To summarize, I would also encourage Godai staff to consider the following:
1. Is Vartio's presence on the forum actively making it a worse place for the community as a whole?
2. Are the grievances that the staff have for Vartio justified, or is there personal bias involved in the decision?
3. What would Vartio have to change to be accepted back, and is it reasonable to ask someone to make such changes?

Godai has stood out as something special to me. I've seen a lot of different RP forums, but none quite like this one. I want to see it succeed and grow, and I want to make sure that the staff are being as fair as they can be so that it can continue to be as open and inviting as I've always know it to be. I'm only making this post in hopes that Godai can continue to grow, and I would hate for something like this to be what discourages people from participating in what I see is a dying medium. I hope that this situation can be solved in a way that protects Godai while also being fair to it's members.

I know this is not an easy situation, so I wish Godai staff the best of luck!

[Revelation]

Hey everyone. After a very… interesting few days with this situation, I’ve decided to go ahead and share my opinions on this. Please be patient with this, as it will probably be long and rambling, but I have a lot of thoughts on this topic. Also, in order for transparency and clarity on this topic: I am friends with Chaos. I am in his Pathfinder group, we play Fallout 76 together, and we get in voice chat and bounce ideas off each other too. So I cannot be completely unbiased, but in order to be fair, I have tried to stay as objective as possible, and have talked to both Chaos and Vartio and heard and read everyone’s posts and responses here as well as gathering the screenshots sent by Vartio. Now, with that out of the way, let’s dive in.

I will quickly just address the tumor analogy and move on. In short, I get what John meant, but still think this was not the best option, solely because the general reader most likely will have negative connections with the word tumor. It is hard to start with a negative connotation and change that to neutral for explaining situations. Still, I don’t believe that was meant to be malicious towards Vartio, but understand where hurt from that could come, even with the further explanation.

Now, I want to talk solely about the information given in this thread and the screenshots passed out in relationship to one question: was removing Vartio from the mod team justified? The other two aspects of the determined verdict for Vartio will be talked separately, and I will explain that in a bit.

From what we have been shown, I do believe that neither Chaos nor Vartio were in the right in this argument. Both were being rather aggressive in opposing each other, and neither backed down nor took the initiative to wait or get other members of the staff to come in and work as mediators. Both sides pushed forward without backing down. Now, the big thing here to mention is this: I do not believe that either of these two individuals would have been anywhere near as aggressive in conversations with other staff or members on something like this. I believe from my interactions that both are usually open to good, honest, back-and-forth discussion on topics such as these. From the context clues we have been given, I feel that this particular conversation was an issue because of pent-up emotions enveloping these two from multiple past issues they had. At this point, those emotions bubbled over, and both sides let their frustration lead to this inferno.

Near the “conclusion” of this fight, two things happened. Chaos deleted some of his potential work from the site, and Vartio took a step to removing Chaos from the mod team. I believe both of these were wrong. I believe Chaos should not have deleted that work, as while it could be recovered or reposted later in some way, the idea here is that Chaos could have essentially prevented some wonderful additions to the site simply due to an argument with one individual. The idea that we could have been deprived of some mod work, even though it technically was his own rough drafts and ideas, comes off as being unfair to members, to staff, and to Chaos himself. In talking since this incident, I have told Chaos that I disagreed with this move. With that being said, I will trust the staff to determine if that is something they find okay or not, and will let them determine how that is handled. Because, and I cannot stress this enough, the staff have to have some leeway from members. This is not because they have power and authority, but because they are volunteers spending time to keep this passion project going. It is a tough, thankless job with no real rewards for them other than seeing the site do well. We need to remember that they are human, and that when you have multiple people pouring hours into a labor of love such as this site, there will inevitably be disagreements and issues. And that is okay. We want people who are passionate enough to speak up working on this site in order for it to progress, grow, and mature as it needs.

However. There is a limit to that. As much as we need to understand that the staff are human, can make mistakes, and can have issues, we do need to also have a certain threshold we trust them to consistently meet in order to keep this site healthy and safe. It might be different from person to person, but for me, I do draw that line at making an executive decision to remove a fellow mod from power. While Vartio may believe what he did was right, I cannot condone this. In the screenshots he sent out, he gets upset at Chaos for calling the exp share work “his” work, when it is supposedly the whole staff’s. However, as has been alluded to a few times throughout my years here and in the posts in this thread, the decision to ban someone, no matter how long, is also an entire staff decision. He made the decision, by himself, to ban Chaos in order to change the staff password and lock him out. That is way overboard, an abuse of power, and not acceptable at all. And, at least to me personally at least, the worst part is when he removed Chaos from the staff group chat. I understand that Vartio did that to prevent Chaos potentially changing posts. That is fine. However, in the final screenshot he sent out, Vartio disproved of Chaos making a new chat and adding everyone, implying he would have found it better if Chaos had waited for things to settle down a bit and wait for them to bring him back into the conversation. Fast forward to today, and instead of following his own advice, Vartio has used proxies to get back on the site, had a friend send out his contact info to members, and then distributed screenshots of staff conversations that were not fully censored, resulting in potential future work being revealed, and more important, some staff members’ full names. I truly do not believe Vartio did this intentionally, but rather overlooked some smaller details when censoring the pictures due to his emotions. I can understand that. What I cannot understand is how these actions can be considered fine when they were not okay for Chaos to do. Even though circumstances are different, there are still foundational ideas in each action that conflict, leading to what I perceive as some sort of double standard. Double standards cannot be allowed within staff, and even without the double standard argument, my view is that Vartio acted on emotions instead of logic, and overstepped his abilities. My final view, as a singular, regular member, is that the decision to remove Vartio from the position of mod is just and should stand.

Now, as for the other two parts of his punishment, that gets tricky. The reason I have separated these two is because the decision on Vartio’s modship can be determined almost exclusively by the decisions and actions we can see and read of in the given information. These two parts aren’t nearly as simple. These go beyond the chat and action that happened recently, and need a lot more context.

In terms of deleting his character, I am absolutely fine with that. The hints that have been dropped about issues with Vartio seem to be with him pushing the system to progress his character as far as possible in as quick and effective a way as possible. If a character is repeatedly pushing things in order to strengthen his character, then removing said character and allowing them to restart is a good way to address that issue (at least in my personal opinion). This punishment has a feel of how some older games would handle players exploiting games, where they would either remove the character or otherwise take away some of the character’s wealth in order to make it more fair for all. I will admit that this is definitely a very subjective view, but in a vacuum, I like how it would allow a player to restart and continue playing without pushing them off the site. That isn’t necessarily the case here, but nonetheless, I agree.

Finally, the most controversial choice in my opinion: the ban. It sounds like the ban comes from multiple other issues concerning his interactions with staff throughout the years, both during his time as a mod and also as a regular member. And, while I appreciate Godai opening this up for us to discuss and express our views, the bottom line is that we really can’t, not without all the facts. We can’t see everything that has happened, we can’t know every skype call or private message or encounter request or thread evaluation or anything else. When a decision like this has been made where he is banned “longer than previous bans”, I cannot comment on that fully without knowing what brought those previous bans and what has all happened since them. As such, I honestly can’t say anything on this. I just have to trust the staff that they do believe that this is the best course of action for now, and trust that should it be reevaluated once this thing settles, the staff will seek out the best option to be fair to both Godai and to Vartio. And I am fine with that, because I trust the staff and their hearts. Whether it is this issue or any other, I trust that they will do their best, regardless of if it is the outcome I want. And I hope the rest of you can do the same.

In the end, this truly is sad that this whole incident happened. No one wanted this, not at all. But it did happen, so we have to accept that and move on. Here, I have given my two cents on this event as a simple member. And now I would like to give three suggestions, which can be ignored by all completely, but I would like to suggest them anyway.

To the mod team, I do recommend trying to let this settle down for a few days, get Vartio to calm down and be quiet for a bit, and then revisit this and double-check the decision made. I agree with what you have done, but we all might be running on emotions right now. Revisit it later, and either adjust it as you see necessary or double down and stand firm in your decision. Either way, once that is done, make it final, lock this down, and work to move past it.

To my fellow members: Do not lose faith in our staff. Remember that everyone involved is human, and give everyone the grace to act as such. Whether you agree or disagree, do not let that harm your view of either side. It is painful for all.

And finally, to everyone: express yourselves. Don’t let things bottle up like this. We all like to read and write, so I think it is safe to assume that we all know what sort of events bottling up emotions and miscommunication can cause. It can be unhealthy and hurt this site, each other, and ourselves. So let us start expressing more. Discuss your thoughts and views with each other early on and in a civil way. Respond to news updates and the like saying what you like or don’t like. Members, talk to mods asking for clarification on their decisions. Mods, encourage feedback and be open with us too about how you are feeling about things on the site or otherwise. This place is built to be a community of growth. We all want each other to succeed. Let us keep focus on that and move forward from this in as positive a way as we can.

If anyone would like to talk to me about this, feel free to message me or grab me in cbox. These are just my random, rambling thoughts, and thanks for making it this far if you did. I appreciate being able to say my piece too.


Rev